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Monday, October 23, 2006

High Definition TV

I was in search for a good 29in CRT TV. I did not like LCD TV for two reasons – they are very expensive (>50K) and I believe LCD is still behind CRT (technology wise). My search was only on video quality and not on sound because I believe TV is only for video and a separate speaker system should added to get high quality sound.

As I trust, internet as the source of all information, as usual my search started with google. However I could not got much useful information from google because most of the search results were based on TV manufacturer news. The other reason for the inappropriate google search results was due to bad keywords; without proper keywords google search is useless. So I wanted to learn some technical terms in TV technologies. I find the easiest way to learn a technical term about a product is reading the product brochure. So I downloaded and read some product specifications from the leading TV manufacture’s website – http://www.lgezbuy.com/, http://www.samsungindia.com/, http://www.philips.india.com/. HDTV, 100Hz, Progressive and active filters are seems to be latest buzz words in the Indian CRT video technology.

The following are definitions I collected from various sources. HDTV – A TV which is ready to display High Definition video and also accepts the HD signals in digital form (HDMI, DVI port). High definition video consists of frames of size 640x480 or higher (720, 1080). The normal cable video frame size is less than 320. In India it is expected the launch of HDTV broadcast in next 5 years. DVD video can be used for HD video signals. HDReady TVs are different from HDTV – both can display high definition video however HDTV will have a HD digital input (HDMI or DVI), HDReady TV may not have those inputs. It is illegal to create a HDMI or DVI to AV Composite converter/adapter due to legal issue. So there is no such adapter exists. So buying a HDReady is useless unless otherwise your DVD player is smart enough to send HD signals through AV Composite or SVideo cable. However there is no DVD player exists in the market.

Due to CRT technology, the screen is required to be refreshed (redrawn) frequently to avoid the pixels in the screen to fade. Refresh rate is how fast the redrawing process can be done. Faster the refresh rate less flickering in the screen. 100Hz produces flicker free display. Normal TVs are 50Hz or 60Hz which may cause eyestrain on prolonged viewing. LCD technology is different in that if once a pixel set on it will be on forever; so refresh rate is not applicable. However in LCD the required to set the pixel to on/off is measured in ms; lesser the unit better the quality of video. Nowadays 8ms is a good value.

Progressive scan is about how the image is produced in the screen. Normal CRTs scans and draws odd lines first and then even lines which may result in flickering. Progressive CRTs draws continuously from top to bottom avoiding flickering.

I was also thinking of Picture In Picture (PIP) feature which is handy when watching cricket match and movie. But one representative said PIP TV’s picture tubes are failing frequently. So I didn’t want to take risk.

So my specification of TV refined as 29in Flat, 100Hz, Progressive and optionally with HD support. I found 3 models from Philips(29PT8836/94), LG(29FS2RMB) and Samsung(CS-29Z40) with the above specifications. It easy to find LG TVs in all the shops, but it is very hard to find other brand’s 100Hz TV since it is very new to the market. I have seen the Samsung model only in the website, still I have not seen the Samsung model in shop. When I enquired about the Philips model, they said they can deliver the model if I order it but they can’t show it. Finally I saw the Philips model in Philips Arena, Jayan Nagar, Bangalore. MRP of Philips model is 25000, LG model and Samsung model is 35000. I enquired around 5 dealers for the price and most of them are ready to offer LG models around 28000 and Samsung models around 33000. But for Philips TV their maximum reduction is 500 rupees only.

I got link for http://www.mouthshut.com/; a website dedicated for Indian products and the reviews are written by consumers. It was somewhat useful but some of the consumers (with very basic knowledge) given very high rank on their product, so I have to read the whole review to come to a conclusion. Further the reviews are mostly for well known brands and products. I am against brands and master-pieces.

After reading the mouthshut.com reviews I concluded that service for LG and Samsung TV’s are very good. Their product is also good. But the service for Philips was poor (in some cases) but their product quality is excellent, no other brand can beat it.

After one month of search I bought Philips 29PT8836/94 and very satisfied with it, will add my review to mouthshut after 3 months of usage.

I found a very good technical forum http://www.techenclave.com/ after my purchase. Unlike other forums the members in this forum has good knowledge in audio and video.

106 comments:

Amit Kamath said...

I am currently looking out for a TV with similar specs. There seem to be other ppl with a similar requirement :) : AVSForum Link

So far I have only been able to get a demo of philips - 29PT8836 at Philips arena. The cost in Mumbai is Rs 23000. Vijay Sales in Mumbai is having a similar Model (29PT7325) for Rs 26000.

On enquiry I was informed by Sales guy at Philips arena that the 29PT7325 model has been phased out.

The only differnce b/w the 2 models I found is 29PT7325 seems to be fully imported (hence the support for Malay language) & the diff in color. I could not figure out why
29PT8836 is heavier than 29PT7325

I too was unable to find any dealers selling Samsung/LG/Sony 100Hz sets.

My friend purchased a Philips 29PT7325 3 months back & he is very happy with the purchase.

I too am planning to go in for philips :).

Anonymous said...

I was looking for tv with similar specs and finally opted for philips 29PT8836. I am very happy with the picture quality except for a few problems. I find that the video and audio go off( muted n blue screen) very frequently for about a second. I mean I see a blue screen once almost every 10 minutes for a second or two. Has anyone else noticed this problem or is it a problem with my set only?

sowmya

Anonymous said...

Sam,
I am considering that 29PT8836 model. I had a demo of it in Phillips arena. It seems to be good value for money. But the problem reported by soumya seems scary. Do you face such problems too?

-NCKM

Samuel said...

NCKM- I have not faced any problem yet.

Sowmya - your blue screen problem is may due to cable tv issues. If you have the same issue on DVD playback then your set has some issue.

Akhilesh said...

Hello,
I am considering buying Philips 29PT8836 as my specs are similar to what Sam was looking for.

Following is what I saw in the specification sheet posted on Philips website for this TV.

Supported Display Resolution
• Video formats
Resolution Refresh rate
480p 60Hz
720p 50, 60Hz
1080i 60Hz
1080p 60Hz

This does not talk about 100 hz refreshing rate? Is it implicit ?

Can anyone (Sam or others who has used this) mention if this TV is really a 100 Hz TV ?

Thanks,
Akhilesh

Samuel said...

Hi Akhilesh,

The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) HDTV standard fixes the vertical refresh rate at 30Hz for all the HDTV modes ( 480p , 720p and 1080i). That is why the refresh rate are 60Hz.

The Philips TV is real 100Hz.

Note that this TV supports HD formats(720p and 1080p) only through component in. But there is no DVD player in india which supports this. So you can use only the standard 480p resolution.

Sam

Akhilesh said...

Wow man, you do research a lot. I m impressed.

Actually there are not many option availabe for in 29 Inch CRT, 100 Hz segment. I could get only 3 models. One is Philips (29PT8836/94), Sony (don't know model and Slimfit TV from Samsung.
Sony TV is pretty costly at 37,000 INR, and also Sony world don't have that TV for display.

Got to know from Some forums that Samsung SlimFit TVs are are not good (Some people observed picture distortion near the sides of screen) and I am not a Samsung fan either.

So finally I have decided to go for this Philips TV.

Just waiting for some sort of sale/discount on Christmas/New year.

Thanks a lot Sam for you inputs.

Akhilesh

Bharad said...

This is an excellent discussion ...thanks a lot for the education Sam...I think your blog gives some good info based on which I can take a decision - I assume that you dont have the problem reported by Sowmya? ... otherwise this TV sounds like the best in its category.

Anonymous said...

Hi Samuel & others

I'm also interested in 29"TV/100 Hz/Progressive scan. After 2 months of search I just got a demo of philips 29PT8836 model,the picture is sharp and the clarity is very good across the screen while watching TV programs.

When I switched to DVD video , I found some flickering then I asked to connect thro progressive scan input, the picture was good. Have you noticed this Sam.

I'm impressed with the TV, but many are warning about the service and the comment from Sowmya also makes me scary.

While browing the web site for Pixel Plus, currently all models are Pixel Plus 3 in UK, Pixel Plus has been patented in 2002 and Pixel Plus 2 has been patented in 2004

Philips India is selling us out dated technolgy.

Sony WEGA-DRC is very costly and these people cheat Indians, while browsing SONY Singapore Web site the're 2 models available one is SZ29M61 (the same available in India as SZ29M80) and the other is DZ29M61 which is a 100Hz digital scan/progressive scan/HDready tv available for Sing. $200 more than the SZ29M61 i.e about Rs. 6000 extra while in India DB29M80 cost Rs. 40,000/- almost twice the price of SZ29M80.

Akilesh, the new year price for the Philips is 22,500 in our area and for the Samsung slim fit is 26000, do you find any better bargain.

Is there any prospectus for HD broadcasting in India either thro terrestrial or thro satellite in the near future.

Also, did you find any HD-DVD in India.

Is there any relation to HD ready TV and DVDs released in HD-DVD format in the U.S.

Kindly explain. Thanking you in Advance.

WISHING YOU ALL A HAPPY NEW YEAR 2007.

SRIDHAR

Samuel said...

Hi Bharad and Sridhar,

I am not having the problem reported by Sowmya.

DVD Video:
I didn’t any flickering problem in video through AV input. But I had problem with component-in. When I tried to connect through component-in using normal AV cables I had flickering problem. After that I bought a gold plated composite-in cable for around Rs.600 and after that the problem vanished. However I am not noticing any big difference between progressive and normal scan.

Philips Service:
I was also warned by many, but I didn’t find anybody had any problem with Philips TV. So I took the risk :).

HD Broadcasting in India:
No Idea. May be it will take at least another 5 to 6 years.

HD-DVD:
HD-DVD contains movies in high resolution - 720p, 1080i or 1080p. The problem with Philips TV (and all CRT TVs) is that there is no HDMI port. HD-DVD player available in Indian market outputs High Definition video only through HDMI port. So we have to wait until release of a DVD player that supports HD video through component video. There is a Chinese DVD player which supports this -http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/products/h4000/h4000.asp

Sam

Samuel said...

Big fat Philips "HDTV Ready" CRT lack HDMI

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36644

Anonymous said...

I bought this TV during Xmas from Pai. It costed me Rs 23000/- and they also gave some gifts, claimed to be of worth 500.
Till now I pretty satified with picture quality but I am also seeing flickering in progressive scan (both on CVI and composite video cable). So I am running it without progressive scan and then there is no flickering. I need to try with that gold plated CVI cable.
Another thing I observed is that this TV takes too long in switching the channels as comapred to my old BPL. Though this is not a serious issue and I will take it any day given it's feature.

Akhilesh

phd said...

check this prod also...
supports progressive scan through component input...

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html

Anonymous said...

Hi

I bought this model 10 days back, I said the dealer to give me a fresh piece and the dealer sent me a new one delivered to my home.

While in screen in blue in av mode, I see a bright red patch near the power button and right side of the picture tube, I have reported to service people and they are saying that the red patched due to the front right speaker that is 5' away from the TV. Is it possible that the magnetic radiation from the speaker affect the TV screen that is 5' away. After little harsh with the service people they have said they would replace it.

I too had the problem when connecting a normal AV cable given along with the DVD players, the picture was hazy and there where white dots all ove the screen.

I replaced with a good quality gold plated AV cable after that the picture was nice.

While in progressive scan playing Superbit DVD, the picture was very ugly later I found after reducing the sharpness to zero in the TV the picture was good. I find good resolution and colour depth in progressive scan component video.

Thanking you guys and expect more discussion.

Sridhar.

Anonymous said...

Sam, Is LG(29FS2RMB) a widescreen TV? I'm looking for a 29" HD ready widescreen CRT TV in india. Are there any other options?

Thanks,
Venkat

Samuel said...

Hi Venkat,

It is not a wide screen TV. I don't think wide screen CRT TVs are available in India.

Regards,
Samuel

Anonymous said...

Very sad to hear that :-(
I badly need a widescreen HD ready CRT to connect to my HTPC. Anyway thanks very much Sam.

phd said...

After a lot of wait I was finally able to buy 29pt8836(as it was not available with any dealer). World cup is approaching...
I have seen it so many times over the net that i know it's all functionality even before having it.
I have a cable connection at home, the reception is not that good, grains are there..even after turning on picture booster.
The few spl features i was looking for in a tv were not available in any, this model has some like.. 100hz, then channel switch timer...but i wanted a reminder list instead of just one channel having this facility. Another that i was looking for different setting (colour, contrast, brightness, sharpness) for each channel, as every channel has bit different composition. but this is also not there.
The worst thing that i noticed is the scroll bars at the bottom of news channel are not perfectly straight (i tried rotation also but didn't correct it much). Then the things written on the scroll bar got a stretched a bit as it approached the left end of the screen. Once it comes in the notice of the eye it is very irritating. Did anyone notice this??
Have to call the engineer for it...
On some sites it was written that this model has a sensor also to adjust brightness, but i didn't find any nor it is given in the manual.
Thinking to gey tata sky for best quality pic.
Rest appears good till now.

Anonymous said...

I have baught this TV today and the picture quality is excellent when connected to DISH TV. But with my cable TV its not good.

But the sound quality is very bad. When I connect Cable TV (CO-ox cable) I get around 20w RMS. But when I connect DVD, Dishtv OR ANY OTHER audio input, i can get only a maximum of 5w RMS.

Is it only for me? ArE you guys get high volume with DVD, equivalent to CABLE TV?

Anonymous said...

Hi Sam,

I am Prashanth from Bangalore. I am currently looking out for a 29' TV with similar specs. After doing a lot of research and visiting many showrooms, i have zeroed in on two models Philips(29PT8836/94) and Samsung(CS-29Z40).

One of the difference i found in these 2 models is Picture In Picture (PIP) feature, which is supported by Samsung and not in Philips. So planning to go for Samsung(CS-29Z40). Can u pls let me know if there are any major issues in this Samsung Model.

Please guide me, as i need to make a decision very soon as worldcup is already started ;-)

Samuel said...

Hi Prasanth,

I was told that PIP is not good for picture tube or tuner. But I dont know whether it is true or not. Most of the TVs with PIP feature has been working fine without any problem for years.

Phillips model is capable of handling HD signals. However there is no input for HD signals(HDMI) in the TV. So unless there is a DVD player or some other source like(X-box) gives HD signals through Component-in there wont be much difference between Phillips model and Samsung model, I believe.

To get good sound in the philips model you need some external active speakers. I dont know about sound quality of Samsung(CS-29Z40).

I think, Samsung model is costlier than Philips.

So it is your personal preference. Go and check in the show room both models and select which one you like most.

Sam

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot Sam for the valuable information.. May be today or tomorrow i am gonna decide it finally. Will post the details once i purchase it.

Geo said...

Sam,

Wondering if we connect Philips DVD DVP5965K/96 to this TV would it give out HD-DVD output? Since this DVD has both HDMI and CVBS ?

Geo

phd said...

After using the 29pt8836 for almost a month, i am not 100% satisfied. As in one of my earlier comment wrote that there is a problem of the bottom horizontal line not coming perfect straight. The tech. came and did his best but he agreed that it can't be corrected completely. It's better now but I can still see it. Normal viewing is fine, but when one start concentrating on the details, can find many flaws. Both horizontally and vertically images don't move straight. It can't be made out if the picture changes continuously, but if a still image is moved then it is most visible. Also found that the red colour bleeds. These two things make viewing a little bit bitter. Rest it's fine.

suresh said...

hi,
sam
Loking for to buy a new 29"tv .
This blog gave a good tip.

Lovely_Angel said...

Hi Sam,
Good post. I have thinking to get a bigger TV for sometime. And today after my search zeroed it on two models. Philips 29PT8836/94 and Sony KV-FA29M83. Though Philips looks good technology wise and as well as the looks are good as well. I am divided 50-50 between both the models. Sony had that extra 3dsound thing on top which I didnt like much. I am more interested in putting extra speakers to get the sound. So can you suggest which one to go for. Both are within budget. Any suggestion.

Samuel said...

Hi,

KV-FA29M83 seems be not HD ready and not a 100Hz TV. I may be wrong but I didn’t find it in the Sony India website. Further Phillips 29PT8836 looks slimmer than the Sony model. Phillips seems to be good compared to Sony. However be warned in Phillips you need to connect some external active speakers to get good sound effect.

Regards
Sam

Lovely_Angel said...

Hi Sam,
Thanks for the reply. Yeah I did get the info regarding HD ready, however I am not pretty sure if we do have transmission/hardware available to use that technology. I am planning xbox360/ps3 in coming months as well. And ofcourse I will be adding speakers to get a better experience then only. As of now I need a TV with good picture quality as I will be going in for TataSky along with the purchase of the TV. Thats what I am more concerned about. Like few of the visitors have noted few -ves. Like blue screen apearing (more of cable fault in my idea). And the news channel horizontal bar bending, red colour bleeding. Any issues you seen on those sides. I think this Philips seems good buy. I am more inclined towards it. I went to check with my friend, and he was go for Sony. Thats the reason I am bit divided. Though the end decision is going to be mine, but you know peer pressure ;). Looking forward to your reply.
Regards
Lovely

Lovely_Angel said...

Hi,
Finally got the philips one. Enjoying it.
Thanks
Lovely

rmathew said...

Sam,

Thanks for your post and the accompanying comments. It's amazing that after much research I too had zeroed in on the same three models that you had!

You said that you would post a review on MouthShut.com after three months of using this TV, but I couldn't find your review there.

By the way, another useful site for comparing products sold in India is http://www.compareindia.com/

Anonymous said...

hello all,

first let me appreciate all for the experience sharing.

I am interested in philips 29pt8836/94. Only thing holding me back is sowmya and phd's comments about blue screen, distortion and red color bleed.

Can latest buyers comment about these, which will allow me to take a decision sooner...

thanks in advance,

- satishJ

Lovely_Angel said...

Hi SatishJ, I had the same apprehensions that you had. However I went with overall experience others had. The issue reported by Sowmya is more of cable transmission. When the signal goes down to unacceptable level it shows a blue screen. Out of 70 channels I am receiving, this has happens frequently on NatGeo as it has very poor transmission from my cable operator. I have checked the same with my neighbours and they have the same issue regarding NatGeo. So its not TV specific. Rest of all the channels come perfect. I will be going for TataSky sooner or later, so it seems all 100 channels are going to be looking good.

Regarding red color bleeging, none so far. And the horizontal bar getting tilted, there are two funtions that can make it happen. One is 4:3 expanded mode. However this mode actually cut the picture rather than tilting it. And second is Tilt level in features. So keep them set and there shouldnt be any issues.

Rest I have had this tv for a week now, and I must have watched some 10 dvd/vcd movies so far, and I can tell you, it was pleasure watching them all.

One cool feature that I liked was Sorting of channels, and zapping zone. Using the sort channel feautre it took me some 15 minutes to sort all the channels the way I wanted rather that the random channels picked by auto find. Zapping Zone is like a favorites, 1 click to sony, 2 clicks to star movies, like that. Its easy to use and comes in handy.

And compared to other models that I have checked, I liked its frame, its look better.

One advice, take your own dvd and check the tvs that you have on mind using the same dvd. And while checking the tv if the salesperson is showing you the tv channels, do ask if they have DTH or cable, as the channels wont look same on DTH as the look on cable due to the cablewala's reception issues.

Let me know in case you want to know more.

Best Wishes
Lovely

skdMrk said...

Hey Sam,

Really nice blog. i am impressed by the blog and also the comments.

I am considering buying this TV, i would like to ask one thing to all the owner of this Phillips TV, has anyone tried viewing HD videos from computer's DVI output to this TV. i think there is no DVI input on this TV, but i guess converter (DVI to component video) should be available.

This is important for me as i want to watch the HD movies & videos that i have in my PC through this TV, otherwise it would be useless buying a HD ready TV if i cannot watch HD videos on it.

Thanks in advance!!

Samuel said...

Hi skdMrk,

You can’t use DVI output on your video card to get HD signal on this TV. Because there is no DVI input in this TV and there is no adapter for that, I think.

To see HD videos in this TV you need a source which supports HD signal through component video. I have seen one DVD player which support HD signal through Componet-In. You can see the link in my previous comments.

Regards,
Samuel

skdMrk said...

Hey Sam,

Thanks for Replying!

U didnt answer my first question about watching HD videos from PC on this TV.

If yes what cable u used - is it VGA to component or DVI to component cable?

Whats the process - did u changed ur desktop resolution to 720p (1280x720) or 1080i (1920x1080) to watch respective HD videos!

Samuel said...

There is noway to watch HD video from PC in this TV

johy99 said...

Yes, there is a way to watch HD video on this TV via your PC.

You need:

1) A Graphics card with DVI output.

2) A DVI to component cable. Like this one.

http://sewelldirect.com/DVI-to-Component-Adapter-Cable-10ft.asp

While the latter might be difficult to come across, wait a while, it will be soon there.

Samuel, the NeoDigits DVD player that upscales via Component, are you sure that is a Chinese player? I think not, but I could not be sure.

http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/products/h4000/h4000.asp

Dattatraya Koujalagi said...

I agree with phd. There is some issue at the bottom of the screen. The text sort of wobbles and if you see, the letters stretch and compress as they move along. I bought this TV(29PT8836) yesterday. I checked out with a friends TV which is also a Philips (but not HD). That also seems to suffer from same problem.

To my observation, the bottom line (image cut off during compressed video and channels) isn't very straight. It's slightly curved(curves upward in the center). Not sure if this is also std. I plan to drop by a shop and checkout other TVs and see...

Other than these, TV is good.

Dattatraya Koujalagi said...

Text scrolling issue doesn't seem to be typical to Philips. Its found in other TVs as well. I checked with NEC LCD connected to Dish TV (huh... earlier I was suspecting my cable).
I'm yet to verify the curvature issue though. I'll post once I check that out.

Dattatraya Koujalagi said...

Huh...
The curvature seems to be std across all the TVs. I checked out a LG as well... Damn it, bigger the screen, the more clearly visible it is... We can live with it.

How did you guys like the color rendering of this box? I see that the glossy skin rendering is slightly different...

Anonymous said...

The "flicker" ("judder" happens to be the correct term) pointed out by some on this forum with respect to this model in the progressive scan mode, is an artefact of 50 Hz -> 100 Hz conversion, and has been pointed out by a few on other forums. Though the 100 Hz TVs produce comparatively less flickered picture, Philips and other companies have not been able to resolve the technology bottlenecks of the 100 Hz CRT televisions completely yet.

The first 100 Hz TVs from the late 80's just displayed each field twice. This apparently introduced lot of judder to motion. So during the mid 90s, they added motion compensation. This motion compensation is still not perfect, and with a lot of motion it introduces artefacts. The new 100 Hz TV's have introduced "digital" processing (each analogue field/frame image is scanned and converted to a digital field/frame image), which is why it's possible to see artefacts, similar to the ones more commonly associated with digital images.

It is also a complaint that the images generated by 100 Hz TVs often look washed out (like they've been painted with water colours), loosing much of the fine detail.

Anonymous said...

The 'washed out' image is due to following reasons:

- 8 bit sampling precision in some 100 Hz TVs (banding!!)

- heavy temporal and spatial denoising.

- heavy "edge-enhancements" (super halos around borders).

This technology is often called 'Super Digital Image Enhancement'.

That's why pure analogue 50Hz TVs still offer the most natural images.

Anonymous said...

100 Hz processing is one of the ways in which telly manufacturers can 'add value' to their product and up the price. It didn't appear as a substantial technology on TVs in the first place because only few people with 'fast eyes' complained to Toshiba and Philips about flickering pictures of 50 Hz CRT TVs. Consequently, the 100 Hz technology was developed to 'add value' (ie profit) to the product line of Philips and Toshiba, and not as a true successor to /real replacement of the 50 Hz technology.

As much as I'd like to believe that said companies only have our interests at heart, I know they'd sell us a TV with no works in it if we were mug enough to buy it. The bottom line is, the reason these technologies exist in the first place is not because some kindly guy is working night and day to improve your TV viewing experience. That might be what he says he's doing, but the reality is he wants a pie in your cake. There's only so much you can charge for a vanilla 50 Hz TV, which keeps falling all the time. So, as soon as the price reaches certain level, companies 'add' something to take them back up in price!

Second point:

There is no such thing as 100 Hz pictures WITHOUT digital processing. How do you think they double the refresh rate? It's stored in a DIGITAL MEMORY. An analogue image is stored as digital information. That is why it looks so cluggy.

Thirdly, while a 100 Hz TV is made to be OBVIOUSLY easier on the eyes, 50Hz TVs on the other hand are made with pretty basic specifications. So they seem to be more inferior to the competing 100Hz sets than they really are.

Earlier this year I stood in a showroom watching a DVD on a Philips PixelPlus, fiddling with every control I could lay my hands on and puzzling as to why the picture wasn't as CRISP or as EXCITING as an analogue picture being displayed on a row of 14 inch portables on a shelf above. I mentioned this to the assistant and he grinned nervously because he couldn't figure it out either. The truth is you can't improve an analogue signal by adding digital
processing to it. It can for a moment look brighter or richer or more sharpened and it may be a joy to watch (due to all the digital 'enhancements'), but when you see the same picture naked on a 50Hz monitor, you'll realise what a cacky, cluggy mess your 100Hz picture is. Although of course it will appear beautifully stable and non flickering.

Thus, the main problem that is unique to 100 Hz TVs is that of detail smearing (ie. artefacts of the 100hz process). Other problems (geometry, convergence, 'bounce' etc.), are artefacts of CRTs which can only be addressed by careful engineering - something that is unfortunately pretty rare nowadays. These issues can apply equally to 50hz TVs.

The balanced final judgement is that the 50 Hz flicker is annoying to some more than the others. It is the same with digital smearing of a 100 Hz CRT TV. You buy a 50 Hz or 100 Hz CRT TV depending upon which is more annoying to you, and not based on the 'marketing speak'.

Also please remember that the image you will get from your Zee Dish TV or Tata-Sky (or for that matter, the Reliance Bluemagic DTH, Bharti Telemedia DTH, Sun DTH, and the Videocon DTH which are going to be in the Indian market in matter of months) is already "digitally enhanced", "digitally compressed", and what not! It already contains a number of digital artefacts. If you enjoy adding some more to this digital mess, it is up to you.

Samuel said...

I was having the same opinion as you have until I had a chance to see a 100 Hz side by side with a 50Hz TV.

100Hz TV are not only 100Hz but they are high end in CRT having most of the newer technology.

Artefacts might be due to poor implementation of 100Hz. But I believe, Phillips implemented 100Hz well.

Note - A 100Hz TV can act as 50Hz TV by disabling 100Hz processing.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199924&highlight=100Hz+50Hz

Anonymous said...

A common problem from the earlier ones to the latest 100 Hz processors, is their inability
to cope both with interpolation and preserving fine details and lifelike depth inherent in
the incoming 25fps interlaced signal. They are probably over-matched because it's hell of a
job in itself to reproduce a wide gray scale on a TV, and to show images with very low luminance levels (shadow detail) as well as a very high luminance levels (highlights) in the same scene.

(Read Peter H. Putman's article, "Shades of Gray" ; visit
http://svconline.com/ar/avinstall_shades_gray/index.htm).

The truth is grey scale is the single most important attribute of any electronic display. Without shades of grey, there isn't any contrast. Without shades of grey, you can't create wide colour palettes. Gray scales are where it all begins where it all begins when a projector or monitor first comes to life on the drawing board." On top of all this comes colour without purity or registration problems, image focusing and geometry. The observed general inability of 100 Hz TVs to show details in darker areas is owing to their broader inability to show many shades of grey.

Contrary to what the showroom salesman tells you, 100Hz is not a "better" compromise. Given that in the widespread analogue 50Hz broadcast signal, picture information vital for high quality experiences like the ones in cinema is lost, it really comes down to having TV sets getting the most or best out of whatever incoming source signal. Though most people see the flicker in 50 Hz CRTs, they are generally happy enough with the picture when softened with some light in the living room. Agreed that it isn't cinema, but it's a good compromise!

Compare this to what a 100 Hz TV does - it tries to recreate the information which is not there in the first place by adding artefacts through interpolation! It is the similar to converting MP3 files to WAV format on an audio CD, and hoping that whatever information that was chopped off by the MP3 algorithm would be "magically" recreated by the conversion process. At least no artefacts are introduced in the latter process!

When having to buy a new TV, most people go for a 50Hz 4:3 or 16:9 TV sets, 28" or 32", because that's what they come across when shopping in supermarkets. But they are shamefully let down with poor results by dealers who desperately try to sell them 100 Hz CRT TVs by making glorious surround set ups (why are Philips Pixel Plus TVs so often showing cartoons?)and always, always placing 100Hz TVs on the floor, but 50Hz sets, dominating in numbers, above in 2 or more rows, further from the eye.

Isn't it wiser "simply" to wish for, wait for and buy TV sets that can handle signals from widespread digital sources without being restrained to a 100Hz frequency? In the meantime manufacturers could make profit by developing 50 Hz Tv sets without loss of information caused by excessive digital filtering! There might be smarter ways to get rid of flicker.

Samuel said...

A much improved picture is achieved with the 100 Hz technique, which was developed in the 80's by Philips Research. The picture on a 100 Hz set is free of large-area flicker due to a doubling of the picture frequency, using digital techniques.

There were lot of problems in 100Hz implementation and they were solved by latest technologies. Most of the problems mentioned in previous thread(s) are already solved by different vendors by different techniques.

http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/sam/icets/tvset.htm

phd said...

It's nice to see the discussion going on. It's amazing that not many noticed the flaws. Dattatraya Koujalagi was able to see the expansion and compression of the band. This is with all 29pt8836, as i found it on other sets also in the showroom. So i think this is something generic. and Dattatraya Koujalagi comments confirms this. But not on all 29" tv model.
Also as earlier told there is a issue with the bending at of he line, the tech came and used a magnet to solve the issue, it was corrected to a large extent and now almost invisible. But it is there.
Dattatraya Koujalagi if u watch the screen u can see a wave effect when a still scene is moved, somewhere at the middle there appears to be a bump in the image, vertically.
I will also agree with the above inputs that the picture don't look that lively in as in 50hz tv. The depth and gloss appears to be missing. It's compared to my 12 yr old Onida21 and a newer Onida 25. The water colour effect is quite true. I don't know the effect of satellite tv or dvd, ie how good it will look, i am only telling the exp. of cable tv. I was not able to get so much info when i was going to buy the tv, else would have given a more closer look to it.
And another that the tv must have is PIP, and with a 29" tv is surely a required thing. PIP don't cause any damage to picture tube. The reason the dealer gave me was the technology required for PIP is quite costly, and in that cost a person can buy a 14" tv. and that's true also. PIP increases the cost by around 4-5K and that is the cost od a 14" tv, but that don't give the adv. of having a PIP!!!
I hope when i have the dish tv connection the picture comes out to be good, else i will be hugely disappointed with the tv.
Another flaw, the image is bit compressed at the top and the bottom, so when u look at the names that scroll after a movie from bottom to top will appear to expand in the middle and then again shrink as they reach the top. Called the tech. again for that and he said that the tv has to be sent to the repair centre, there ppl will come to take the set to centre but i said to wait till the end of world cup. I am not very comfortable in sending the set out. He said there is deflection errors and can't be corrected here. don't know what to do!!!

Dattatraya Koujalagi said...

I need to concentrate more to see the wave effect. Let me try... :)

About image being compressed at the top, I agree. I've observed it. I thought it was yet another manifestation of curved boundaries that I see.

Let me also call the technician. Let them fix as much as they can.

p.s. I have felt often that I should have waited a little more for the technology to mature. Not just about TV, it seems to be true about anything these days. People just get buggy stuff out to beat the competition. Its particularly pinches hard when you buy a TV set for 22k to sit in your living room and enjoy and end up watching intently the curves and distortion at the bottom. I've also come to hate the technicians who are ignorant and simply can't accept the defect (A sales person was trying to convince me that LCD has better image quality.)... OK enough of complaining.. let me get back to watching distortion at 100 HZ... :)

Anonymous said...

Just go and buy a DLP Projector. Benq MP510 is available for Rs 36000. Anyday better than a microscopic 29inches in comparison.

Anonymous said...

That was nice and out comes Benq eh?

What about a nice screen to match?

How much to shell out for that?

Anonymous said...

Hi, thanks for your post Sam. I have purchased the Philips 29PT8836 model. It is great! I have still not experienced any fault in the TV. Though I have cable connection, the channel reception are good and the viewing is a pleasure. Great value for money.- Jay, Mumbai.

Anonymous said...

I got 29PT8836 last week for 21K at Coimbatore, Tamilnadu.

The performance is really amazing with crystal clear picture even with weak Cable signal. It's worth for the price when compared to Sony or Samsung.

I’m also having Phillips DVD625K, which has Component output. When I'm trying to connect it to 29PT8836 using component output with a AUDIO/ VIDEO cable, I didn't get any picture (in YPbPr selection). But Mr.Sam indicated that he got picture with flickering. please clarify.

Samuel said...

One of Component-In is specifically for progressive scan. So you wont get any video if your DVD doesnt set to progressive option. So try setting progressive setting in your DVD player.

The other Component-In will work for both signals.

Anonymous said...

Hi Sam,
Thanks for your clarification.

But Sam I believe, the 29PT8836 has only one component input ie.YPbPr input.

I have connected my DVD only throu. that input only but ofcourse i did't check for the prograsive scan mode in my DVD.

The DVD player I'm having is Phillips DVD625K, I really don't know my DVD player has prograsive scan mode.

P.Rajendran
Coimbatore.

Uday said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Uday said...

Gr8 discussion. I need to get a tv by August 07. Out of curiosity checked out the Philips and Sony Wega 29 inches, side by side at Vivek's JP Nagar (Bangy).
Surprisingly, the news ticker was out of the line or distorted in centre! And guess what, Sony Wega 29 also had it!!!
Next I asked them to switch all other tv's on the shelf of all makes (samsung/lg/sony etc), only the Philips didn't flicker, full marks ... am impressed!

Now, my Q is that the problem of distortion/curvature of the image/screen in the centre, is with all 29 inch tv's?

HB said...

How about complimenting the 29PT8836 with Philips HTS4750 Home theater system? It has Component out with progressive scan and HD up-conversion. Or else with Samsung HT-XQ100, but you may miss up-conversion part.

HB said...

Hi,
Where can one get good quality Component cables in Bangalore? I looked up in couple of shops in SP road without any success. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

This is for the benefit of Mr.P.Rajendran of Coimbatore who posted above, wanting to know about the availability of progressive scan feature in Philips DV-625K. The said DVD player, though was sold as a non-progressive scan version, is infact a clipped down version of a progressive scan model of Philips. The progressive scan feature is locked in the player, and you can unlock it by pressing a sequence of buttons on your remote. For the unlock (=hack) code, please search the web.

On most occasions, the local Philips service centre can give you the code.

Samuel said...

Hi HB,

I bought component-in cable in SP road only. Most of them dont know it as Component-in cable, try asking DVD cable.

Sam

vijay barath said...

Hi All,

I only See Praises for this TV..But the Fact is it has got lot of problems....I have been having this problems from 2nd week itself.

The TC doesnt switch on some times and after a lot of try's it does and after some time shuts down.

The real problem started when i started when I connected my DVD ,..The TV used to go on and off...The Service guy had come three times but the problem still perssits...Finally they have taken the TV to service centre now.Believe me Philips Service is really bad in bangalore...

I Agree the PICURE quality is good but with just minor voltage surges or ups and downs ...there are some errors generated which makes the TV to behave in an awkward mannner..
The Service guy cleared the erros and it worksd fine for some time but again it causes the same problem.

I planning for a replacement Sall i go for a SAMSUNG with same featurs and if yes which one...

I have wasted 23000 on this one and hope they agree to replace it ...

Believe me the guy from service centre who took the TV back told me that he has already done 10 replacements for the same TV

nikin shetty said...

dear phd,
you cant use PIP with DTH,unless your DTH also has PIP.So forget the PIP feature if you use DTH.

2.models and latest price
1.samsung cs29z40 RS 25,500
2.LG 29FC81RB RS 23,000
3.Philps 29PT8836 19500
4.sony 36000

Anonymous said...

If you have power fluctuations, it may affect any make TV. Hence, changing the make will not solve. Get an UPS etc., fitted, or even don't plug it directly.

Anonymous said...

Sam, you have been looking for good sound system, did ya find? If budget is not a constratint then would suggest Onkyo SKS HT540. Good reviews. Check out CNet.com for reviews.

Dunno whether their branch in India has the model.

Also, they have good A/V receivers, but that would be quite pricey, though excellent views compared to others. I myself am looking for sound system and was impressed overall with it.
Jay, Mumbai.

Samuel said...

Thanks Jay. I will try to locate that model.

Anonymous said...

Hi Guys,
I have been searching hard all over bangalore to find a good projector screen for my optoma hd73 which i am planning to get from a friend in the US.
I am wondering as to why people here dont look at projectors as an option while it is a rage in the developed world. People are forsaking their regular plasmas to get their projectors ( for the real movie big screen experience).
Am i missing anything here?
can you also suggest someplace in bangalore where i can buy hdmi cables, projector screen etc.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks and have a good day
Murali

Lotus said...

hi everyone
im looking for a 29 inch Tv
when i searched around i could only find Philips HDTV with a matching pichure quality with my old sony trinitron
i nead a quick comment about
Is this TV worth my money??
reading all the posts i find here and there mistakes abt TV
do reply for my post
i like to thank sam for starting such a wonderfull blog
with regards
Jerril Sebastian
Cochin

Anonymous said...

Hi Jerril,

Philips 29PT8836 is a wonderful piece with excellent picture quality and under 25K. The problems faced by few users doesn't seems general, since I own one myself. Mostly people post comments when there is some problems in the product, which is generic to all products no matter which brand. I checked with the agency, they have hardly received any complaints in this model.
Jay, Mumbai.

Anonymous said...

Murali,

Since this blog is inteded for HD TV, so no comments on projectors were posted in the first place. The blog looks at the cheapest and best TV with HD quality picture output.

As far as buying a projector is concerned, first of all it is too expensive. Projectors generally cannot be viewed as TVs for longer hours as the life of the lens is short. The room should have minimum lighting etc., In short it has more cons than pros.

Here is an interesting link(s) for a good understanding of projector compared to tvs. Check it out.

http://www.cnet.com.au/projectors/print.htm?TYPE=story&AT=240053544-239035440t-230000049c

To sum it up, it is best for occasional movie watching.

Jay, Mumbai.

LalithaMurali said...

Thanks Jay, for your timely comments.
I am planning to have a TV as well as a projector at my to-be-constructed home. ( I know it is bloody expensive, but it has been an object of desire for me. I intend to do regular watching on my tv and intend to use the projector for movies. Since this is going to be once in a lifetime investment ( minus the recurring costs on bulbs) i intend to go for a HDMI version. and am currently scouting for deals which fit my bill. I am looking for a HDMI capable AV receiver probably onkyo, or danon, and will customise the speaker set up. This AV receiver will be connnected to a DVI/HDMI capable DVD player and through to the HDMI projector. I am still working out the costs, but i am ready to compromise a new car for my dream home theatre :-)
Thanks for your inputs again.
Regards
Murali

sarveswararao said...

Can we change the setting to 50 Hz if required? My idea of asking this is to view the TV in its native signals ( with out processing ) in case we feel more water colour effects in 100 Hz mode.

A sarveswara Rao

Anonymous said...

Murali,

Hope your dream home-theatre comes out well. Would you be going for 7.1 / 5.1 system? If it is 7.1 then your A/V receiver should have specifications (viz audio decoders with Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD) to get the original effect from the background speakers. All other decoders viz. dolby digitial, pro-logic, DTS discreet etc., only supports 5.1 setup.

You may check out Dolby & DTS's site for the same:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/

From my research with most of the sites like CNet.com, Amazon.com etc., It seems Onkyo models are good and equal to Denon, while cheaper too.

Since you would be getting your projector from U.S. You may also get the A/V Receviver and Speaker System from there.

In A/V Receiver Onkyo TX-SR605 has good ratings (check CNet.com). It has HDMI 1.3 connections, supporting Dolby True-HD and DTS-HD, priced around 400-600$. It also converts analog signals to HDMI (Amazon.com has the cheapest price). Higher versions are TX-SR805, but pricey.

For speakers, Onkyo SKS-HT540 seems good (in reviews from CNet & Amazon again), priced at $300 (again, cheaper at Amazon.com). It has comparatively bigger speakers, which handles sound better.

It is suggested by almost all experts that mini/small-speakers though lookwise is good, handling of sound is poor, esp. that of high level sounds from movies/hard music.

Anyways, take your call and decide on the best that suits you.

I researched this, cuz even am looking for a home-theatre set up, though I have given a time frame of one year from now, to get that extra finance ready with me.

Jay, Mumbai.

Anonymous said...

hi Sam

1. i am looking for <25k Telly, would u rcd Sony's Fa29M83.


2. currently using Samsung 29'' (with PIP), but that feature has been
rendered redundant with T-Sky.

3. more importantly, could you suggest WHAT FEATURES/TECH SPECS. should i be on the lookout
while the salesperson is giving a demo(read SPIEL).

4. PHILIPS. am a bit apprehensive abt Philips. The other day there was this article in the Business Standard Newspaper(The Stategist), that both LG and Philips TVs are being made by a Delhi(NCR) based company. !!!

5. thanx.

pradip.chandigarh.Punjab.

Anonymous said...

Hi Sam,
Iam currently looking out to buy 29 inch best TV in the market. Could you pls tell me is it worth buying the Philiphs 29PT8836 only or any new model launched with the similar features/same price now?

Anonymous said...

Hi Pradip,
These are the days where most of the manufacturing is outsourced. It is the process and technology that matters. Any way "Made in India" is much better than "Made in China"

With regards,
HB

Tijo said...

Hi Sam,
I have finalized on Philips - 29PT8836. I am looking for a DVD player that supports HD over composite-in cable.Which is the dvd player you would recommend? I plan to add a home theater in another 3 months.
-Tijo

Samuel said...

Hi Tijo,

As far as i know, there is no DVD player in India which gives HD over component.

The following DVD player does it..
http://www.helios-labs.com/us/products/H4000/h4000_overview.shtml

Sam

Anonymous said...

Hey Sam,
I was here a few days back when I was in search for a good 29, flat TV. After a quick research, I opted for Samsung CS29Z30MA. I just wanted to share my experience here hoping it'd be helpful for the new readers coming here during their "research phase" :-) .

Samsung CS29Z30MA -It's a 33% slim, great looking TV. The image quality sucks. I mean the shape distortions it has on the images. straight lines towards the edges are bent, wavy. Both horizontal and vertical. I wanna caution the "slim" tv buyers... Here's my story:

The brand new piece I got home delivered had the following problems.
1) Shape distortion. Straight lines would come bent, (some what like a flattened "V", towards the edges, and then wavy towards the other end)
2) Had a tilt
3) Had a color patch on top left corner.
4) The Blue screen intensity was not even, it would be dark on some aras and brighter on other areas.

So I gave a call to the dealer and they immediately agreed to despatch another piece. I insisted on checkin that myself before despatching. So I went to the showroom with a DVD (it had a documentaty with a standard TV screen check image... the one which comes on TV station just before the transmission starts.. with blocks of colors, lines and shapes) I found the same problems listed above except the color patch on this one (the 2nd one) too.
I remember reading on the internet that most of the slim models have/are susceptible to image distortion problems.. but I did not take it seriously... and now I know its true, atleast with samsung.

I then tested the same image with other TV s in the showroom and selected LG 29FC8CGE. Though it was not slim, it looked good and MOST importantly it had GOOD image quality, LEAST image distortion (almost all brands had "some" image distortion, which was minor
and could be ignored, except samsung), it has tilt correction and color degauss options in user menu. Good deal enough. Also the blue screen (no signal blue screen) color intesity was even across the whole screen.

So my conclusion is Samsung does not care to see the products they send out (QA passed!!!) have all the image distortion checked. May be some pieces are ok, but will have to try one's luck! It sure looks cute but picture quality sucks.

I would not recommend this product.

If you still decide to buy it, I recommend go with a dvd/vcd with the screen check image/video, connect and check all the 4 points I listed above. If you find it ok, then go ahead else go for another brand. Samsung does not have tilt and degauss menu option anyways. My dealer says they have some hidden service menu which has the tilt option, but If the BRAND new piece comes without such corrections, its not worth buying it and then exploring the technician instincts in you.

The dealer I chose was NEXT, JP nagar (near HDFC BANK, near Viveks, SBI)bangalore and they were nice and commited to giving
the best service, I did not have problems getting the TVs checked, they let me check almost all models diplayed there with the screen check image I had on my dvd and then they let me select another model.

Baseline: Whatever you decide, please check it yourself before you take it home. Better safeNsmart than being sorry.
:-). Your "research" is complete only after you choose "the piece" yourself; The model might be good but what is important is the piece you TAKE HOME is good !!

Hope this helps.
-Shibu,
Bangalore

Anonymous said...

Hey Jay,
Thanks a lot for your inputs!
Something went wrong with my computer and i could not see the word verification on any of my screens. hence could not post back.
I did do some extensive searches on the onkyo sr805 receiver and found it amazing. i spoke with a onkyo regional manager in bangalore. he expects sr805 to be launched in another 2months with a price tag of 85k after discounts.this is 26kgs and cant be shipped from US. so have to buy it here :-(
polk audio (polkaudio.com) has a 5.1 system for 240usd. i plan to get this from a friend in the us. i will couple this with a samsung hdmi dvd player and samsung la32r81 lcd.
by the way there is a guy in chennai who makes good audio torvin.com
will keep you posted.
apologies to the group for hijacking this thread.. just didntknow your personal id.
rgds
Murali

Anonymous said...

Hi All,
Does anyone has a comment about LG model, e.g.
29fc81rb. This is available for 23K and specs seem to be good. It seems that this was available for around 30K one year back, but now the twin tuner with PiP is removed with a corresponding reduction in price.

thanks in advance,

- satishJ

Anonymous said...

Try to find a Philips 100 Hz TV in the latest Philips India TV catalogue here:

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/en/in/consumer/cc/_groupid_TELEVISIONS_GR_IN_CONSUMER

100 Hz TVs have completely disappeared from the catalogue, but the 50 Hz CRT TVs are very much there!

Need more proof that Philips has given up on the 100 Hz TV technology?

Anonymous said...

Hi all

I bought this tv after seeing this blogsite.

I'm having this TV for past 10 months and i'm having lot of problems in it.

I have been replaced with 2 tv's already and i find problems in this 3rd tv also.

I have requested a philips service engineer who is well versed in Hi end TV to visit me, there is no response from philips for the past 3 months.

1. while viewing still images like jpeg I could see the picture wavy & this waves rises up and down. This is seen also while watching news/cnbc/ndtv profit you could the presenters oultine wavy and the letters also. Can somebody say the exact word for this effect.

2. The last line of the cnbc/ndtv colours are not solid and the images are doubled and not sharp.

3. The logos change in size when the back ground picture

4. The audio while played from DVD player, Sony VideoCD Hi fi system are very low that i have to pump up the volume upto 60 to 70 units.

5. The picture stored with autostore and not fine. I can see lot of grains in the faces. So I have to manually fine tune each channel and store.

Philips have discontinued this model from its product line within 1 year of lauching. Does anyone know the reason for it.

If any body feel the same problems please reply.

Thanking u

Sridhar

Amit said...

I recently bought Samsung 29Z40

It is an awesome product !

Things I like best are:

(1) Look n feel : looks like a LCD/Plasma TV from front and side.

(2) SlimFit: its slim and not bulky as other 29" CRT TVs

(3) 100 Hz: Its 100 Hz operation gives a very good picture quality. Even for cable or for Doordarshan Antenna, picture is very good. And when u plug a DVD player and play an original VCD/DVD ... the picture is simply SUPERB !!!

(4) Picture-in-Picture : The PIP feature is the one i admire a lot. It comes in very Handy when there is a long break in a program and u just wanna surf other channel in the meantime while keeping an eye on the status of channel being watched.

(5) Audio : The audio quality of TV is also pretty good and clear. it may not have those funky woofers and sub-woofers but for a medium sized hall/room, the audio output is more than sufficient.

(6) Value for Money: At a price of 19,990 it a good deal. Other slim TVs also cost about 16,000 and just for 4,000 extra u get 100 Hz and PIP.

(7) Samsung Service : The service from samsung is prompt and sincere. I had a few apprehansions when i first installed the set at my place. Samsung enginners made 2 prompt visits and solved my doubt. I even got a call from Samsung Delhi to conform te solution of my problem.

And rite now I am enjoying watching cricket matches and playing DVD on this lovely TV set

Anonymous said...

Hi sam,
I am looking for 29 tv in 100hz but phillips is not availble now only samsung Csz40 now reduced 19.5k. LG updated FC81 sereies now among these two which one is best as philips discontinued the model(100hz).Let me know which is better

ishwar said...

Bought 29pt8836 3 days back in Pune for 21k. Its also available in mumbai.
~Ishwar

Samuel said...

Hi Anonymous Nov 1:

I have not used the both TVs you mentioned. You can go for either of it;These TVs seems to be much better than other normal 50Hz TVs.

Sam

ishwar said...

Question...
I have issue with viewing progressive scan on this TV. I have philips DVP642k/69 DVD player. But whenever I enable the progressive scan on DVD player then I dont get any picture on 29pt8836. After 10-15 seconds, DVD player recovers back to non-progressive scan mode. And then I can see the picture. Component cables are connected to AV1 YPbPr and channel is set to CVI.
Can anybody help?
Ishwar...

Samuel said...

Did you set "Progressive scan" on your TV?

ishwar said...

Yes.
Which TV channel should be choosen? CVI or YPbPr?

Amrith said...

hi everyone.

i am looking for cs29z40.
please let me know it availability in bangalore.

thanks
amrith

Anonymous said...

Hi All

After a long fight with Pilips for their 29pt8836, I got my money back before filling a consume case.

hi amit did you realy got your samsung for 19k, the website shows 29k.

thank u guys

Sridhar

sarveswara rao said...

Hi sridhar,
I got this 8836 TV after going through many reviews. I took in the month of July ( Hyderabad). From the begining I observed lot of waves on this TV. I complained to Philips (Hyderabad). Service persons are not understood the problem of this higher end TV. They have removed andtaken the PCB and after reloading the software ( as they said) refixed the board. But now the problem shifted to after 30 minutes of usage waves are starting at both edges. AS you said the jpeg images shows shakey picture. Except for flicker free operation the quality of thei TV is most useless. No clarity on edges. Letters are blurred. Horizantal lines appear on fast movements. only colours are good. Sound is also very bad. When the music contains bass sounds you can see clear patches on the corner. Philips support is very very bad. First of all they have not trained their staff on the service of this TV. I am totally disstisfied with this TV. Still I am struggling catch them to get the problems rectified.

sarveswara Rao

Amrith said...

yes philips service is really bad in bangalore too. they have completely outsourced it to some junk group.

Samsung 100 Hz is obsoleted, it seems. could not find it in bangalore. but is available in mumbai.

sridhar said...

A week before, the service manager came and gave me the check for the cost of the TV. After resolving the matter amicably.

Philips customer service has just responded to my notice dated 22.10.2007, the letter is undated and they have send it through courier...???

They have promised to resolve my problem sooner.

Sarveswara rao, give your T.V. to the service centre and file a consumer case and get your money back.

Sridhar.

Satvinder said...

Hello,

I am from malaysia and bought the 34pt8845 2 years ago.When i first bought the set,i thought it was a wondeful bargin,a complete HD set.After buying the set,i discovered that folks back in the uk had a similar set,but complete with Cineos and dolby surround.Now that the blue ray tech is coming out,i regret buying this set,it does not come with HDMI.Philips asia cheated us by giving us outdated junk which they face so many problems in the uk.Recently i paid philip to get my firmware upgraded to ver 1.9 to support my playstation 2 problems.I have not tried with PS3 yet.
I have a question,have any of you guys know what ver firmware is your set running on?

thanks
Satvinder

Bobby said...

pls check this link
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2006/12/31/big-fat-philips-hdtv-ready-crt-lack-hdmi

naina said...

Hi Sam,

I have recently just 2 days back brought sony TV ksz292M88.It has only 100 channels. Could you please let me know is there any tv of sony with 200 channels. Could you also let me know which is the best 29 inch CRT tv to buy. Many told philips models are defective and sony is best please advice by tomorrow

Samuel said...

Hi naina,

I have been using the Philips 29 CRT TV for almost TV years now and I havent faced any problem. One of my friend also has this TV and he is also happy with the quality. I was using Cable signal for 1.5 years and switched to DTH recently. In both cases it is good. Although I am not satisfied with my Philips HD DVD player, I am very much satisfied with Philips TV.

Having said that, since most of the above comments are negative about Philips, your choice of ignoring Philips product might be wise.

However since CRT era is almost end and LCDs are cheaper now, I would purchase a LCD TV / Monitor, if I have to purchase now.

Sam

bobby said...

Hello Sam,

Any Idea what version firmware your set is running on? Please get philips to upgrade to ver 1.9,there are improvements on the picture

Anonymous said...

Hi,

I have two questions:

1) Can one use an Xbox HDMI to Component cable to connect a DVD player (with HDMI output) to this TV? How is the picture quality this way?

2) Secondly, is there a way to upgrade the firmware on the TV? How?

Niran said...

Good discussion happening here. I was also on the search for a large screen tv that is pocket friendly. Finally decided to cut out the technical mumbo jumbo and decided that the size of the screen matters. Unless we go Hi-def, not much use of an expensive LCD/Plasma tv either. So went ahead and got myself a Videocon Jumbo 34" at the offer price of 19990/(12990 + 7k deposit for a 32" plasma 3 years later). Still cheaper than all the 29" 100Hz stuff and larger at 34". Regular, simple tv with few frills, supporting DVD component input. Happy with it since I hooked it up with my sony home theater system. Suggest ppl looking to set up a home theater cheap to try it out - Get the 34" CRT, hook it up with a good Home theater receiver with Dolby ProLogicIIx / DTS Neo and get going.You'll not regret the money you spend. Enjoy.

Gadum said...

I had bought a philips 29PT 8836 TV. But suddenly from today some red and blue lines started to appear on the screen and if i remove the cable also this lines exist. So guys anybody has come across this problem? and any solutions for the same. thnx in advance

Anonymous said...

uuugg..I have the same problem too. three lines(red, green and blue) apprear across the screen. The service engineer said something about RGB component or something like that has to be replaced. And I have the same problems mentioned above(waves/flickering). And to my bad luck, my warranty expired 2 months ago, and the service engineer quoted 3,000 to fix all the above problems. Is there a way out? BTW, this blog rocks, feels like a support group :-) - Vivek

Anonymous said...

I bought this TV in Oct 2006. After few months I started getting color patches on the top left side of the tube. I had to fight a lot with the service people to convince them on the problem. Finally, after 4 months I got a replacement sometime in Aug 2007 & it was working fine till now.

Suddenly I now notice that the picture has become wavy at times. It's been more than a year since I got the replacement. Since the warranty period is over now, I don't know what to do. Can you guys guide me on this.

Regards,

Horizon said...

Mouthshut is a fraud site. With the Owner (Faisal) himself having multiple profiles and posting reviews, comments and taking money from corporates.

Please remove its references.

If you need any details you can check some of the esteemed members from that who left in late 2008 after uncovering the owners scams.

Let me know if anybody needs more details/proofs about it.

cialis said...

Hello, I do not agree with the previous commentator - not so simple